Discussion:
Tom Pendergast stalks again - Re: Loser arguing politics at 2 AM on a football newsgroup was Re: OT: Bush and the Credt Card economy
(too old to reply)
Hobbes
2004-09-06 17:34:24 UTC
Permalink
DEER Loser arguing politics at 2 AM on a football newsgroup --
Bless your tormented, sick little mind, Loser. Have a nice day.
(dance, fag)
Hey stalking pedophile; what are you doing in the New England Patriots
newsgroup? Don't forget to tell your little hillbilly pals in RASN that
you have better things to do than stalk and start mud slinging. Some of
them are probably stupid enough to believe you. Which of your e-bay porno
tapes are you watching today; the gay ones or the pedophile ones (like
BARELY LEGAL; your prize purchase).
I had a bad deal on eBay, bought a couple of adult movies from a
guy who tried to rob me on the deal.
I really don't give a shit who knows or cares that I occasionally
buy an adult tape
Yes, I know. I'm no angel either. That's why I'm in so many
killfiles myself. That's life.
YES, YES, YES, YES, I admitted to "buying porn" in eBay.
Megan Law, Pennsylvania State database:
Pendergast, Thomas
Spouse: Stevens, Diane - status = DIVORCED

818 9th Ave,
Brackenridge, PA 15014-1024
(724)224-7546

601 E Eighth Ave
Tarentum, PA 15084-1628
(724) 224-7546
I will find out who your kids friends are.
I will find your synagogue and other folks who attend it.
From: Tom Pendergast <***@icubed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
Subject: Re: Killfile....how many are in yours
Date: 31 Dec 2002 05:34:34 GMT
Organization: Noneayoubizness
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: du201p169.icubed.com (204.215.201.169)
User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25

I buy a lot of "junk" at the local Post Office auctions,
they have them twice a year, and you can see eerything
before you bid on it. It's items where the box has been
destroyed, people decide they don't want something and
just dump it back into the mailbox and it falls apart, etc.
So this one time out I spot one of these gizmos!. The
plastic tube with the clamps and the suction ball and the
magic snake oil in a tube, and I figure "what the heck",
it would be good for a gag gift or something, so I bid
for it and got it for three bucks. Such a deal!
OK, so the temptation got to me, you know. Give it a
try. Did it work, Did I add inches overnight??? I dunno.
I couldn't get the damned thing on. It was just too
(sigh) -tight-.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990222023606/http://3rivers.com/dphome.htm


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
Subject: Tom, explain this google search???
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:29:11 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-Complaints-To: ***@supernews.com
Lines: 59

Artikel 1-1 Anzahl Artikel: 1
Tom (***@icubed.com)
best gay Divx movies
Aug 14 2003 13:15:27

1. BASIC PLUMBING (- middle-age mans in action)
2. FRISKY SUMMER - (teen)
3. GOOD FRIENDS -
5. SLAVES 1 -
6. BIG GUNS 2 (military)
7. MEASURING UP -
8. AMAZON -(latino)
9. SEXPIONAGE -
10. COUNTRY HUSTLERS
11. BOLD GAY
12. HARD CANDY
13. BOTHWAYS (----bisex---
14. BABES BALLIU BOYS 2 (---bisex---)
16. SMALL TOWN HARD HITTERS
17. MUSCLE FORCE
18. TRIO FOR ALL
19. GAY CLUB ORGY
20. OFFICE DICK -
21. THE RESCUE
25. IN THE OPEN (sex in nature).
26. Dr'S ORDERS 1 (manipulation)
27. STRANDGUT -
28. HOMOMANIA GEILE BOYS
29. VIRGIN NO MORE
30. GEILES TREIBEN -
31. THE HITCHHIKER
32. MINUTE MEN IN UNIFORM -
33. POLICE FRONTIERES -
34. A YOUNG MAN'S WORLD
35. STRAIGHT SERVICE
36. A YOUNG MAN'S FANCY
37. CHAPTERS (soft SM and domination)
38. A DAY IN THE LIFE
39. PLAYING WITH FIRE 2
40. FALLEN ANGEL 2 -
41. NIGHT
42. SNOWBOUND - The Other Side Of Aspen III (falcon
43. JACKED TO VEGAS
44. CAUGHT IN THE MILITARY #1
45. DESERT TRAIN .
46. BARELY LEGAL -
47. SLEAZY (MPEG file) 13 mans fuck 1
Steveo
2004-09-06 18:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hobbes
DEER Loser arguing politics at 2 AM on a football newsgroup --
Bless your tormented, sick little mind, Loser. Have a nice day.
(dance, fag)
Hey stalking pedophile; what are you doing in the New England Patriots
newsgroup? Don't forget to tell your little hillbilly pals in RASN that
you have better things to do than stalk and start mud slinging. Some of
them are probably stupid enough to believe you.
Is SapGuru one of those RASN hillbillies!?
SAPguru
2004-09-06 18:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steveo
Is SapGuru one of those RASN hillbillies!?
I may be living in the Deep South; but I do not buy into his lies for a
single moment. He tells everyone his shit smells like roses; then spends
hours on end stalking me from group to group. Right now he is telling folks
he owns a Corvette and is a Patriots fan; and is doing his stalking in
those two groups. Then he comes here and tells his little "Goober Fan Club"
that he is being stalked mercilessly and begs for compassion and
understanding. It's quite pathetic, actually.
--
______________________________________________
Post by Steveo
I will find out who your kids friends are.
I will find your synagogue and other folks who attend it.
Steveo
2004-09-06 18:48:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAPguru
Post by Steveo
Is SapGuru one of those RASN hillbillies!?
I may be living in the Deep South; but I do not buy into his lies for a
single moment. He tells everyone his shit smells like roses; then
spends hours on end stalking me from group to group. Right now he is
telling folks he owns a Corvette and is a Patriots fan; and is doing his
stalking in those two groups. Then he comes here and tells his little
"Goober Fan Club" that he is being stalked mercilessly and begs for
compassion and understanding. It's quite pathetic, actually.
That whole mess needs to be flushed down the septic tank!
SAPguru
2004-09-06 18:49:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steveo
Post by SAPguru
Post by Steveo
Is SapGuru one of those RASN hillbillies!?
I may be living in the Deep South; but I do not buy into his lies
for a single moment. He tells everyone his shit smells like
roses; then spends hours on end stalking me from group to group.
Right now he is telling folks he owns a Corvette and is a Patriots
fan; and is doing his stalking in those two groups. Then he comes
here and tells his little "Goober Fan Club" that he is being stalked
mercilessly and begs for compassion and understanding. It's quite
pathetic, actually.
That whole mess needs to be flushed down the septic tank!
And then the septic tank needs to be pumped.
--
______________________________________________
Post by Steveo
I will find out who your kids friends are.
I will find your synagogue and other folks who attend it.
Steveo
2004-09-06 18:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by SAPguru
Post by Steveo
Post by SAPguru
Post by Steveo
Is SapGuru one of those RASN hillbillies!?
I may be living in the Deep South; but I do not buy into his lies
for a single moment. He tells everyone his shit smells like
roses; then spends hours on end stalking me from group to group.
Right now he is telling folks he owns a Corvette and is a Patriots
fan; and is doing his stalking in those two groups. Then he comes
here and tells his little "Goober Fan Club" that he is being stalked
mercilessly and begs for compassion and understanding. It's quite
pathetic, actually.
That whole mess needs to be flushed down the septic tank!
And then the septic tank needs to be pumped.
____________
_, | TP |
,'*\ | SEPTIC
`'\ #-----_ |____________|
`.#===========\ _ _ /
H`**'H /.\____/.\
H H \_/ \_/
Farscape
2004-09-06 18:48:17 UTC
Permalink
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/grubor.html
Post by Steveo
Post by Hobbes
DEER Loser arguing politics at 2 AM on a football newsgroup --
Bless your tormented, sick little mind, Loser. Have a nice day.
(dance, fag)
Hey stalking pedophile; what are you doing in the New England Patriots
newsgroup? Don't forget to tell your little hillbilly pals in RASN that
you have better things to do than stalk and start mud slinging. Some of
them are probably stupid enough to believe you.
Is SapGuru one of those RASN hillbillies!?
SAPguru
2004-09-06 19:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Farscape
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/grubor.html
Funny you should bring up GRUBOR. Did you know that Tom Pendergast stalked
GRUBOR once to some computer show; and wrote a story about what GRUBOR
smelled like and looked like? How is that for bizarre? Is the name John
Grubor definitely real, or is it possible that Grubor is actually Tom
Pendergast? "Pendergast + Grubor" returns literally hundreds upon
hundreds of hits. Also, Tom Pendergast is famous for asking folks to
commit suicide; which is something Grubor allegedly does/did. Here is
the Pendergast stalking Grubor story where he says "I even know what he
smells like" :

Subject: Re: Grubor eyeballed - the gory details!
Date: 1997/01/05
Message-ID: <5aoasp$***@stronghold.dhp.com>
references: <***@3rivers.com>
organization: DataHaven Project +1 412 421 4516 (DHP.COM)
newsgroups: alt.god.grubor,pgh.opinion

Tom Pendergast <***@3rivers.com> wrote:
: I'm at the cattle-drive-computer-show-and-sale at the Expo Mart, and
: I'm standing there trying to buy a book from this one overworked (but
: probably rich) guy that's trying to wait on about 15 people, with
: 7 or 8 on each side of this corner table location.
: He's got this little combo cel-phone / terinal there for processing
: credit cards, and a couple of little signs that he's adding a 3%
: surcharge for CC purchases. The guy is really doing the diplomatic
: shuffle, trying to wait on all of these people, when all of a sudden,
: the next guy up at bat is the customer from hell.
: About 5' 9", 5' 10", 160 - 170 LBS, maybe 45-50, denim pants suit
: complete with the soft canvas loafer earth shoe effect at the bottom.
: Dark with gray hair, over the ears, dissheveled, and lots of it!
: Big and thick pop-bottle glasses, straining under the weight of a
: pair of eyebrows that were -- as God is my witness -- about 2 inches
: thick and started out over by the side hairline and kinda merged in
: the middle somewhere! Really ... -scary- looking dude, ya know? Not
: in the "man, let me away from him" kinda way, but more like the "wow,
: where's the cage that -that- came from!?" way, you know?
: (Ed. note: Somewhere in his canibas-crusade rants, Grubor tells of
: being on Dilantin for long periods of time, and having been there
: myself for a few months, many moons ago, I can attest that Dilantin
: [a steroid] is hell on the hair-producing hormones. I did 3 months
: on the stuff after a cracked skull from a bar fight, and, uhhh, let's
: not ask about what happened to the -other- guy, OK?. I digress ...)
: I guess it's not nice to make fun of people with a medical condition,
: but if said people want treated like human beings, they should have
: dropped the "fucks little boys" nonsense long ago, right Groobs?!
: So, uhhhh, too bad. I laugh heartily at your sickness, and only
: regret that it isn't anything that will lead to your premature demise.
: OK, so where was I??? Oh yeah ...
: Superbookseller reminds wolfman that there will be a markup for use
: of the credit card, and wolfie argues that it's also a debit card and
: he's not using it as a credit card. Bookseller 'splains to woofie
: that it don't matter, he still has to call in and verify it (points
: to his little phone-terminal gizmo for clarification) so he adds the
: surcharge. Policy, you know?
: So, Ol' burned out hippy with them funny wings out front there
: proceeds to say "OK, I'll pay cash then" and starts rummaging for
: some greenbacks.
: Bookseller says "fine, with the tax, that comes to twe-" and our
: sad friend pops up with "Uh, I'm tax exempt, I have a tax number..."
: all over the tax on twenty bucks (I guess all of those 'net accounts
: -are- pretty expensive, huh?) and the guy behind the counter is just
: about to crack, and I, by this time -really- feel like sticking my
: thumb and forefinger up to the back of Wolfgang's head and giving
: him a good sharp ping on the skull, as in "come on pal, give it up,
: huh!" but I show my usual restraint.
: Salesguy (always the thinker) sees Groobs's dog-eared el-cheapo rolled
: and curled fax copy of his tax-exempt certificate and says "you have a
: copy to leave with me, right?" and ape man sputters for a second and
: says "no, but I'll leave you a business card and you can write the
: number on it..."
: So, this time, bookman -knows- that there is now way in hell that
: he's getting the extra buck-forty out of Cheeta, so he says, "fine,
: Fine, patience folks, I'll be with you all in a minute..." and Dr.
: Burnout pulls out a generic business card that has one very distinct
: feture -- the words "Dr. G. Enterprises" or "Dr. G. Incorporated" in
: real big letters right in the middle of the card!
:The next few
: seconds are really hard to describe, 'cause it caught my eye, and the
: brain started to spin about 100 miles an hour, and I used my super-
: duper hawkeye vision to scope out the rest of the card, and all I can
: swear to seeing was a PO Box in East McKeesport mailing address.
: It was him.
: There was no confrontation, no violence, no event to report, which
: is probably a dissapointment to some.
: sometime around noon on the 4th of January in the year of our Lord
: nineteen-Hundred and Ninety-Seven, the rules -- as we know
: them -- have changed.
: I know what he -looks- like.
: I know what he -sounds- like.
: And, due to my rotten luck in being a bit downwind of him in line,
: I even know what he -smells- like!
: And that's about all I have to say about it.
: --
: Tom Pendergast ///// | My opinions are mine alone and reflect not
: \\\\\ ***@3rivers.com | upon any other person or entity. Capeesh?
--
______________________________________________
Post by Farscape
I will find out who your kids friends are.
I will find your synagogue and other folks who attend it.
Copelandia Cyanescens
2004-09-07 05:36:49 UTC
Permalink
SAPguru wrote...
Post by SAPguru
Post by Farscape
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/grubor.html
Funny you should bring up GRUBOR. Did you know that Tom Pendergast stalked
GRUBOR once to some computer show; and wrote a story about what GRUBOR
smelled like and looked like? How is that for bizarre? Is the name John
Pathetic losers who harass others in public have to expect to have the
stark reality of their life exposed from time to time. Why do you feel
that's "bizarre", or that you should be an exception?
--
A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from
injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate
their own pursuits of industry and improvement.

-- Thomas Jefferson
Hobbes
2004-09-08 00:54:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Copelandia Cyanescens
SAPguru wrote...
Post by SAPguru
Post by Farscape
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/grubor.html
Funny you should bring up GRUBOR. Did you know that Tom Pendergast
stalked GRUBOR once to some computer show; and wrote a story about
what GRUBOR smelled like and looked like? How is that for bizarre?
Is the name John
Pathetic losers who harass others in public have to expect to have the
stark reality of their life exposed from time to time. Why do you feel
that's "bizarre", or that you should be an exception?
But it wasn't some stark reality. It was Tom writing about Grubor. That's
like Sam Clemens writing about Mark Twain.
--
____________________
Repeat. 19-0. Nuff said.
Copelandia Cyanescens
2004-09-08 06:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Hobbes wrote...
Post by Hobbes
But it wasn't some stark reality. It was Tom writing about Grubor. That's
like Sam Clemens writing about Mark Twain.
ROTFL!

The only similarity between you and Mark Twain is the fact that
everything you offer the world is pure fiction...

Twain was at least honest about it. And entertaining. :)
--
I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think
it's hell.

-- H. Truman
Blond Swinger ~~*
2004-11-02 18:25:53 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Hobbes
DEER Loser arguing politics at 2 AM on a football newsgroup --
Bless your tormented, sick little mind, Loser. Have a nice day.
(dance, fag)
Hey stalking pedophile; what are you doing in the New England Patriots
newsgroup? Don't forget to tell your little hillbilly pals in RASN that
you have better things to do than stalk and start mud slinging. Some of
them are probably stupid enough to believe you. Which of your e-bay porno
tapes are you watching today; the gay ones or the pedophile ones (like
BARELY LEGAL; your prize purchase).
I had a bad deal on eBay, bought a couple of adult movies from a
guy who tried to rob me on the deal.
I really don't give a shit who knows or cares that I occasionally
buy an adult tape
Yes, I know. I'm no angel either. That's why I'm in so many
killfiles myself. That's life.
YES, YES, YES, YES, I admitted to "buying porn" in eBay.
Pendergast, Thomas
Spouse: Stevens, Diane - status = DIVORCED
818 9th Ave,
Brackenridge, PA 15014-1024
(724)224-7546
601 E Eighth Ave
Tarentum, PA 15084-1628
(724) 224-7546
I will find out who your kids friends are.
I will find your synagogue and other folks who attend it.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
Subject: Re: Killfile....how many are in yours
Date: 31 Dec 2002 05:34:34 GMT
Organization: Noneayoubizness
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: du201p169.icubed.com (204.215.201.169)
User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
I buy a lot of "junk" at the local Post Office auctions,
they have them twice a year, and you can see eerything
before you bid on it. It's items where the box has been
destroyed, people decide they don't want something and
just dump it back into the mailbox and it falls apart, etc.
So this one time out I spot one of these gizmos!. The
plastic tube with the clamps and the suction ball and the
magic snake oil in a tube, and I figure "what the heck",
it would be good for a gag gift or something, so I bid
for it and got it for three bucks. Such a deal!
OK, so the temptation got to me, you know. Give it a
try. Did it work, Did I add inches overnight??? I dunno.
I couldn't get the damned thing on. It was just too
(sigh) -tight-.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990222023606/http://3rivers.com/dphome.htm
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
Subject: Tom, explain this google search???
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:29:11 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
Lines: 59
Artikel 1-1 Anzahl Artikel: 1
best gay Divx movies
Aug 14 2003 13:15:27
1. BASIC PLUMBING (- middle-age mans in action)
2. FRISKY SUMMER - (teen)
3. GOOD FRIENDS -
5. SLAVES 1 -
6. BIG GUNS 2 (military)
7. MEASURING UP -
8. AMAZON -(latino)
9. SEXPIONAGE -
10. COUNTRY HUSTLERS
11. BOLD GAY
12. HARD CANDY
13. BOTHWAYS (----bisex---
14. BABES BALLIU BOYS 2 (---bisex---)
16. SMALL TOWN HARD HITTERS
17. MUSCLE FORCE
18. TRIO FOR ALL
19. GAY CLUB ORGY
20. OFFICE DICK -
21. THE RESCUE
25. IN THE OPEN (sex in nature).
26. Dr'S ORDERS 1 (manipulation)
27. STRANDGUT -
28. HOMOMANIA GEILE BOYS
29. VIRGIN NO MORE
30. GEILES TREIBEN -
31. THE HITCHHIKER
32. MINUTE MEN IN UNIFORM -
33. POLICE FRONTIERES -
34. A YOUNG MAN'S WORLD
35. STRAIGHT SERVICE
36. A YOUNG MAN'S FANCY
37. CHAPTERS (soft SM and domination)
38. A DAY IN THE LIFE
39. PLAYING WITH FIRE 2
40. FALLEN ANGEL 2 -
41. NIGHT
42. SNOWBOUND - The Other Side Of Aspen III (falcon
43. JACKED TO VEGAS
44. CAUGHT IN THE MILITARY #1
45. DESERT TRAIN .
46. BARELY LEGAL -
47. SLEAZY (MPEG file) 13 mans fuck 1
Alabama
2004-11-03 04:45:14 UTC
Permalink
What does this have to do with the New England Patriots?
Post by Hobbes
DEER Loser arguing politics at 2 AM on a football newsgroup --
Bless your tormented, sick little mind, Loser. Have a nice day.
(dance, fag)
Hey stalking pedophile; what are you doing in the New England
Patriots newsgroup? Don't forget to tell your little hillbilly
pals in RASN that you have better things to do than stalk and start
mud slinging. Some of them are probably stupid enough to believe
you. Which of your e-bay porno tapes are you watching today; the
gay ones or the pedophile ones (like BARELY LEGAL; your prize
purchase).
I had a bad deal on eBay, bought a couple of adult movies from a
guy who tried to rob me on the deal.
I really don't give a shit who knows or cares that I occasionally
buy an adult tape
Yes, I know. I'm no angel either. That's why I'm in so many
killfiles myself. That's life.
YES, YES, YES, YES, I admitted to "buying porn" in eBay.
Pendergast, Thomas
Spouse: Stevens, Diane - status = DIVORCED
818 9th Ave,
Brackenridge, PA 15014-1024
(724)224-7546
601 E Eighth Ave
Tarentum, PA 15084-1628
(724) 224-7546
I will find out who your kids friends are.
I will find your synagogue and other folks who attend it.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
Subject: Re: Killfile....how many are in yours
Date: 31 Dec 2002 05:34:34 GMT
Organization: Noneayoubizness
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: du201p169.icubed.com (204.215.201.169)
User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
I buy a lot of "junk" at the local Post Office auctions,
they have them twice a year, and you can see eerything
before you bid on it. It's items where the box has been
destroyed, people decide they don't want something and
just dump it back into the mailbox and it falls apart, etc.
So this one time out I spot one of these gizmos!. The
plastic tube with the clamps and the suction ball and the
magic snake oil in a tube, and I figure "what the heck",
it would be good for a gag gift or something, so I bid
for it and got it for three bucks. Such a deal!
OK, so the temptation got to me, you know. Give it a
try. Did it work, Did I add inches overnight??? I dunno.
I couldn't get the damned thing on. It was just too
(sigh) -tight-.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990222023606/http://3rivers.com/dphome.htm
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
Subject: Tom, explain this google search???
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:29:11 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
Lines: 59
Artikel 1-1 Anzahl Artikel: 1
best gay Divx movies
Aug 14 2003 13:15:27
1. BASIC PLUMBING (- middle-age mans in action)
2. FRISKY SUMMER - (teen)
3. GOOD FRIENDS -
5. SLAVES 1 -
6. BIG GUNS 2 (military)
7. MEASURING UP -
8. AMAZON -(latino)
9. SEXPIONAGE -
10. COUNTRY HUSTLERS
11. BOLD GAY
12. HARD CANDY
13. BOTHWAYS (----bisex---
14. BABES BALLIU BOYS 2 (---bisex---)
16. SMALL TOWN HARD HITTERS
17. MUSCLE FORCE
18. TRIO FOR ALL
19. GAY CLUB ORGY
20. OFFICE DICK -
21. THE RESCUE
25. IN THE OPEN (sex in nature).
26. Dr'S ORDERS 1 (manipulation)
27. STRANDGUT -
28. HOMOMANIA GEILE BOYS
29. VIRGIN NO MORE
30. GEILES TREIBEN -
31. THE HITCHHIKER
32. MINUTE MEN IN UNIFORM -
33. POLICE FRONTIERES -
34. A YOUNG MAN'S WORLD
35. STRAIGHT SERVICE
36. A YOUNG MAN'S FANCY
37. CHAPTERS (soft SM and domination)
38. A DAY IN THE LIFE
39. PLAYING WITH FIRE 2
40. FALLEN ANGEL 2 -
41. NIGHT
42. SNOWBOUND - The Other Side Of Aspen III (falcon
43. JACKED TO VEGAS
44. CAUGHT IN THE MILITARY #1
45. DESERT TRAIN .
46. BARELY LEGAL -
47. SLEAZY (MPEG file) 13 mans fuck 1
--
________________________
I'm in a hurry to get things done,
Oh I rush and rush until life's no fun.
All I really gotta do is live and die;
But I'm in hurry and I don't know why.
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